castlevaniafandomcom-20200223-history
Talk:Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia
Template Talk Page Blah Did an admin from the Konami Forums remove this page? I posted a link to this page after Semianonamous added information about the rumored picture. I later found that that post was deleted and that the entire contents of this page was wiped out. If someone from Konami didn't want this rumor to spread, it's too late, but I would like to repect their wishes and copywrite. I don't know if that's really the case or if that's really the right thing to do. They didn't leave any statements as to why they removed the contents of the page. Could've been a vandal for all I know. Urg. For now, I'm going to revert the page to how it was before the rumored images were added. I'm then going to add some links at the bottom to some other news articles about the leaked image and they can try to have those articles removed from their host sites. What do you think?--Reinhart77 03:24, 19 January 2008 (UTC) On second thought, the article Semianonamous wrote was very informative. I think it would be okay to have the text in, but I'll leave the image itself out of the page, which I had added in because it looked like Semianonamous intended it to be there.--Reinhart77 03:37, 19 January 2008 (UTC) "He also reveals that the reason he experimented on the villagers was because they were the '''last descendants' of the Belmont Clan''" I looked through the dialogue, but I couldn't actually find anything that states this. If there is no source for this, we should change it. --Nagumo baby (talk) 19:02, December 23, 2015 (UTC) :This page has a transcript of OoE's dialogue. :Albus: It would seem the blood of the holy whip's legacy makes many things possible. One of life's fortunate miracles, you might say. Betrayed by the old man, I fled with Dominus. In this way I had taken your place as bearer, and you were no longer at risk. Alone, I continued my research into methods of controlling Dominus. As you know, that Glyph's power is Dracula's as well. To this end, I required the blood of the sacred Belmont clan. Since they vanished years ago, I set out to find any traces of their heritage. :Shanoa: ...The villagers. : 19:12, December 23, 2015 (UTC) Hmmm, well yeah, but it doesn't say they are the last remaining descendants, right? Theoretically there could be more descendants out there. So saying they are the last descendants might be a little misleading. --Nagumo baby (talk) 13:05, December 27, 2015 (UTC) :You are right. I forgot to say that those lines are the only clue we have, still leaving the statement in the article ambiguous (I vote for changing it). I put the link to the transcript for anyone who would want to read all of it, searching for another hint (I don't, I'm lazy :P). : 12:06, December 28, 2015 (UTC) Early 1800's? As far as I can tell, the game and its info only state that the Order of Ecclesia itself was founded in the early 1800's shortly after the Belmonts disappeared. That doesn't mean the game events took place in the early 1800's. Also, if we go by the official Japanese website, Dracula is listed as 800 years old (unless some Japanese text translates as "nearly 800"). So if we take Mathias Cronqvist's date of birth, 1062, and then add 800 years, then that means OoE took place in the year 1862. Or if we only count years when Mathias was officially Dracula, then 1094 + 800 = 1894. Is there anything that suggests OoE took place in the early 1800's, or that the official OoE page is only estimating Dracula's age to be nearly 800 or approaching it? Believe it! (talk) 20:11, May 17, 2017 (UTC) I'm also of the opinion that OoE took place much later than "early 1800s" and went great lengths to prove that by using information provided within the game. This information, that the game takes place in the "early 1800s", comes from an interview that IGA did previous to the launch of OoE. This could mean that he changed his mind about the year the game takes place in, because the in-game information (prologue text, statements by Barlowe,) does not support the game happening early in the 1800s.Theplottwist (talk) 18:03, May 18, 2017 (UTC) :Cool man. Good work on laying all that out. I came to a similar conclusion based on Barlowe's words, as it seemed that he was speaking of Ecclesia in past tense. He refers in-game to the order's founding, which strongly suggests it happened years or decades before the game. And if Ecclesia was founded in the early 1800's, it means the game itself takes place around 1830 or later. :I also agree that Iga is not the final canon source IF the in-game or printed material states something else. I do accept producer/writer statements, but not if the game canon contradicts them. In my view, the canon is the truth unless the writer changes this with new content or by making some kind of official statement saying, "oops, we messed up here". :Now, let me be clear as to why I'm asking this. I am not trying to get the wikia page changed or anything. Honestly, I don't care for wikia pages anymore, seeing as how most wikia sites are run by fascists who protect their own headcanons. The reason why I was asking is because I'm thinking about making a fanfic that deals with events in the 1800's of the Castlevania series (as well as some other time periods), and I want to make sure Shanoa's part in my story is consistent with the canon. I hadn't read anything about Iga's interview before now or that it even existed, so thanks for pointing that out to me. :Another point I would add to your evidence is Daniela's age in comparison to her vampire hunter grandfather. It isn't solid evidence because its all mathematical estimations at this point, but based solely on the ages involved, it's possible that Daniela's grandfather is either Juste or Richter. Simon is possible, but not likely, as he would have to be in his late 50's/early 60's when Daniela learned the "secret arts". Plus, Juste seems like the right fit since he was a spellcaster who seemed to inherit more of the Belnades line's abilities, and "secret arts" seems to imply spells. Would also explain her openness to Shanoa, who is a spell-based fighter. So basically I take the assumed age of Simon, Juste, and Richter (in Richter's case he is canonically 19 during Rondo of Blood) and then count up to the year they may have had a child. Then I count up to that child's adulthood age when they may have had Daniela. Then just add 85 years, which is her stated age on the Japanese website. For Simon, you really have to stretch his age and his child's age in order to have Daniela be 85 in just 1801. And of course it doesn't jive with Shanoa's age and Ecclesia's founding. She would have joined the order at 19 in this case. With Juste, Daniela's 85 in 1852 (Juste is 19 when he has his child, and the child is 18 when he or she has Daniela), and with Richter as her grandfather she's 85 in 1896. :Of course it's entirely possible that her grandfather was not a Belmont at all but rather a descendant of Leon or Trevor or Christopher or something. So again, it isn't solid evidence. :Now, as for Barlowe, I understand your argument about what he said, and your points are well taken, I assure you. However, my theory is that Barlowe was lying about Ecclesia in certain regards. Maybe not blatant falsehoods in all cases, but twisting the truth and omitting things. For example, when he states that Ecclesia proved its worth and outlasted all the other hunter organizations, I think that's a lie. He wanted Shanoa to think she was mankind's last and only hope. So telling her Ecclesia stands alone makes sense in manipulating her to go through with the ritual. I believe that other hunter groups were still out there, they were just small and spread out, but knowing this would have made Shanoa (or other possible candidates) less likely to do the ritual. The Morris and LeCarde families, for example were in Spain, I think. The Belnades and Fernandez clans were out there. So I don't think Ecclesia beat all the others out. Also, I don't think "people in power" entrusted Ecclesia with Dracula's remains, in fact I doubt "people in power" even possessed the remains. My theory, and I openly admit I have no hard proof on this, is that Ecclesia was founded by Barlowe to be an instrument of Dracula's resurrection from the start. I don't think it was a holy organization gone bad, I think it was the next iteration of Shaft's cult. I think Barlowe was a member of Shaft's cult. When Shaft died in SotN, it left the seat empty, and Barlowe continued his predecessor's work as well as his plan, which was to turn the forces of good against each other. Shaft tried to use Richter against any other vampire hunters, but Alucard and Maria stopped him. By creating Ecclesia, Barlowe would turn the good hunters into unwitting tools for Dracula's resurrection and empowerment. Remember, the glyphs are based off of the powers of Dracula's monsters, or at least, the glyphs are magical tools to harness those powers. So after Dracula would be resurrected, Barlowe would still be useful in using the glyphs to empower Dracula's army, or perhaps enslave unknowing hunters with them. :As evidence I point to the Devil Forgemaster, Hector. He was basically a powerful spellcaster who knew how to use the powers of magic to create new monsters, or fashion weapons, or in his final act, to convert Dracula's curse into something harmless. Hector was also a good man toward the end, as he let go of his anger and was able to resist the curse. It was a similar case with Albus, though he lost control of Dominus in his final battle with Shanoa. So I think Ecclesia was founded as a false front. An order masquerading as a holy organization that used magic for good, but in fact was always just another one of Dracula's cults, like Camilla, or Actrise and Gilles De Rais, or Elizabeth Bartley and Drolta Tzuentes. I also believe this is why Shanoa destroyed all records of Ecclesia, because she discovered that the whole thing was a lie, and that Barlowe and others simply gathered Dracula's remains and kept them safe from the hunters until (and so that) they could figure out how to resurrect Dracula. So I place OoE somewhere around 1831. :I could be wrong of course, but I did mention this is for a fanfiction. Not saying this is fact or anything. Basically I'm like Doc Brown on the clock tower trying to pull a few pieces together and make the proper connections. And again, I do think that Barlowe was honest in that Ecclesia was founded in the early 1800's, and that he was referring to it in past tense. So I agree with you on that, and thanks again for the info. Believe it! (talk) 19:55, May 18, 2017 (UTC)